Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds

This post was featured in the first Asian Women Blog Carnival at ciderpress’s blog.

So there was this American guy, Jake, who sat with Gareth and me at lunch last Saturday and was telling us how much he wanted to go to Malaysia because it’s apparently a great place to meet women, and claimed that the country is chockfull of hot-bodied beauties. He also didn’t waste time to explain that the reasons behind his quest was down to his general lack of luck with women and self-confessed socially-inept ways. And so like the many sad, lonely white men with money to squander, he’d like to try his luck with Asian women because they, y’know, love white men, are ultra-feminine and so willing to please, and all that BS.

Now, this was unflattering and offensive on extreme levels to both my boyfriend and myself. First, while being the target audience for this kind of orientalist fantasy talk, Jake had sensed that he was in the company of a fellow Asian fetishist. Secondly, there was a sense that I can help him accomplish his quest, or rather conquest, by offering tips on picking up women from my remote corner of the world.

He chose the wrong woman to discuss his fantasies with.

Men like Jake perpetuate racism, sexism, and colonialism under a more subtle guise in that it’s not about denigrating Otherness, but rather desiring and yearning for it. Today, foreign bodies (places, women, food) are not the scary and mysterious things of the past anymore. Instead they are to be embraced. They make you hip, worldly, in touch with distant cultures of peoples you may never meet in your lifetime (Yirgacheffe coffee, anyone?). So on the face of it, fascination with the exotic Other doesn’t look like racism and the colonial conquest of yore.

So what makes an otherwise well-travelled, highly-intelligent Harvard-Oxford-educated man like Jake essentialise Malaysian women, and most ‘Asian’ women, as beautiful and ever-compliant? The answer is likely to lie in how we see our world and how we ‘consume’ it. In her essay ‘Eating the Other’, bell hooks articulates the way we are fed with media images in advertising, mainstream film-making, and general consumerist culture that fuel our imagination with the allure of the ‘Spicy’, ‘Demure’, and ‘Uninhibited’ Otherness. These images do nothing but reify the racial and capitalist power that are in favour of very specific groups:

When race and ethnicity become commodified as resources for pleasure, the culture of specific groups, as well as as the bodies of individuals, can be seen as constituting an alternative playground where members of dominating races, genders, sexual practices affirm their power-over in intimate relations with the Other.

Malaysian women and girls

Gareth asked me last night that surely where Jake comes from there are plenty ethnic-Asian women around to de-mystify his idea of ‘oriental beauty’. My thoughts about this are that women from distant, foreign lands are perceived to be and treated like untouched, uncharted territory. The last frontiers of MANkind, so to speak. I say ‘untouched’ in the way Madonna had once sang about, in that they haven’t been corrupted by feminism and modern, progressive attitudes about love and romance. Cross-cultural virgins.

Incidentally, another well-travelled man called Christopher Columbus once wrote home during his travels in search of India saying that the ancient explorers were wrong about the earth being round. Instead, he postulated, that it was shaped like a woman’s breast, and that, as you might’ve guessed, was his to conquer.

So, the feminisation of land as sites for masculine conquest is as old as the hills. In Anne McClintock’s Imperial Leather, there is a passage in the first chapter, aptly entitled ‘Porno Tropics’, that encapsulates the Western fascination with unknown peoples and cultures that remain unchanged, and mostly unchallenged for centuries to this day:

For centuries, the uncertain continents – Africa, the Americas, Asia – were figured in European lore as libidinously eroticized. Travelers’ tales abounded with visions of the monstrous sexuality of far-off lands, where, as legend had it, men sported gigantic penises and women consorted with apes, feminized men’s breasts flowed with milk and militarized women lopped theirs off. Renaissance travellers found an eager and lascivious audience for their spicy tales, so that, long before the era of high Victorian imperialism, Africa and the Americas had become what can be called a porno-tropics for the European imagination – a fantastic magic lantern of the mind onto which Europe projected its forbidden sexual desires and fears.

102 thoughts on “Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds

  1. What a rich rich post, thanks! You really nail it with your insight on the subtlety with which people–esp. men–express their exoticization and othering.

    It’s also interesting to me what expressions of “Asian” culture are allowed. I’m reminded of Margaret Cho’s tv show “All American Girl” in the mid-1990s in the US, where her portrayal of Asian-ness was not acceptable to network officials. It was a self-representation that went beyond the specified bounds of the exotic and the other. It did not shore up the interests of the racial and capitalist elite, so it had to be quashed.

  2. If a guy has “bad luck” with women of his own background, I don’t get how he thinks other women will like him any better. Seems like at some point he should wake up and figure out he’s the problem!

  3. Pingback: Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds « Muslimah Media Watch

  4. Great post. Beauty and sexuality – particularly of women – will always be tangled with the politics of gender and race.

  5. I understand how many people would find it insulting if someone dated specifically for stereotypical reasons – but I find many features more commonly attributed to Asian people to be attractive. I don’t want to seem like someone who is doing this, but my initial reaction to someone I find attractive is often overexcitement, not just with those Asian people I find superficially attractive (of which, sadly, there is an inordinate amount) but with anyone I find physically attractive, as I find that a good many people are not attractive to me in such a way. I find myself turned away by moral repulsiveness as well, as I am unwilling to date the rare person I find sexually attractive just to have a physical relationship. Still – I often ponder, am I stereotyping if I find those with Asian attributed features attractive, am I being shallow, or do I simply consider sexual attraction to be an important factor in someone I consider a potential (to be honest) sexual partner? Should I follow my sexual attraction, devil-may-care if people stereotype me for dating only Asian if it turns out I am attracted so very densely, or should I worry about what people think and bar Asian people, knowing that few and far between would find the features I find attractive something fashionable? Am I thinking too much or being too shallow? I apologise if I write too much, but there’s no good place to ask and I truly am curious. I wish I were attracted to more mainstream concepts of beauty, it would confuse me much less.

    • i meant to address this post earlier but I forgot, but the easy answer is, you won’t know for sure unless you interact with them and carefully pay attention to your thought patterns.

      There’s not much wrong with being attracted to physical attributes that usually belong to a certain race – if it’s just that, you could find that sort of “look” in someone of your own race too. There is also nothing wrong with physical attraction per se. It’s how you think about it or express it that matters.

      Is it superficial if you’re attracted only to certain physical attributes? Yeah, a little. But there is a difference between being attracted to physical atributes, and making those physical attributes the most important qualification. For example, I find myself attracted to blonde men with Caucasian features. But I’ve met plenty of them without necessarily finding them hot, because the sexual attraction isn’t the criteria that leads me to them.

      I think it would be silly, and unfair to yourself, to bar yourself from dating Asians simply because of this fear of falling into a stereotype. You’ll fall into it anyway. What you ought to be most concerned about is that you don’t behave as though your partner is attractive solely because she’s Asian.

      It’s not what you think that’s important, it’s how you think it, and how you express it. You’ve already got a good start by owning to the fact that your attraction might be problematic. Just don’t wax poetic about Asians as a whole group – that’s stereotyping. Don’t force awareness of your attraction on others – that’s… applicable to anybody, really. And keep up with the non-defensiveness. When it comes to relationships, it’s not all about your hubris.

      • Yes, exactly Jha! [sigh]….But I thought you were responding to something I said because I did mention the idea about being attracted to someone solely because of being Asian. So yeah, exactly what I said Jha😀 . And J expressed what i said in my first post to Cycads. See, I knew we were still on the same page, just the paper tends to curve when the wind blows hard enough.

      • *rubs temples wearily*

        Was I talking to you? Cycads, was I talking to him? WTF is wrong with you, Averill? Do you do this all the time, interrupt when people are talking to each other?

        I’d explain what the hell is wrong with you this time, except I don’t want to inflict a comparison to you on J, so I’ll settle for telling you to fuck right the hell off.

      • Oh, Jha. [smile]….Just catching you where you make evident what I was saying to you was true.😛 Ok, you both can continue.

  6. Very excellently written, I must say. [smile]…..Yes, understood. The media out there very very often makes things seem a lot more than what they really are, and as a result many things about the culture, social behavior and thinking of different groups of people are often obscured. I have to say though, I’m a guy who, like many others, is easily attracted to a beautiful image. Currently I’m searching for a nice girl, and preferably a “foreign girl”. However, my “quest” is not simply the result of bad media, but a great attempt to “change a trend in the bloodline” find very special person. I do find that many Asian females are quite beautiful, but I have to admit that part of my interpretation for their character is a result of some media, but with that in mind I at times must question my true interests. I wish for my wife to have a unique and rich heart. Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.

  7. Averill,

    I’m always suspicious of men who actively seek out women who are classified as ‘foreign’. Common interests and intellectual compatibility are not usually the factors that motivate their search. In your case, your attempts to “change a trend in the bloodline” is an interesting and pretty fanciful one in my opinion.

    Speaking of fanciful ideas, marrying a ‘foreign’ wife is not like taking a holiday in a foreign country where it’s like a big adventure (I have a post written about such ‘adventurers’, by the way). There are many complex issues dealing with identity when raising biracial children that many interracial parents handle with stride. You have to think outside the ‘cute unique kids’ box once in a while, y’know.

    I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.

    I think you mean racial ‘uniqueness’ rather than ‘pureness’. Like I said, that certain look you wish for in your wife and offspring are purely cosmetic. They’re not the objet d’art that you collect from remote, unknown places where no one has ever been that you can use to impress others.

  8. [Laugh]……Noooooo, I wasn’t at all concerned about how my kids would look, but just being able to have my family bloodline reach out further. [laugh]….no, no, I never really thought about the look of my kids, but having kids “is” one thing I really wish to include in my relationship with my wife so that we both could enjoy the fruits of our love. I only save myself and all my greatest love for my wife and my kids to be. The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman. Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own. I have this concept: when you see her heart her face is forgotten. I have shown great patience in my choice of type of girl. Many of the people around me who are married seem to have forgotten some of the most important things to include in a really good choice of selection. Their relationships with their other someone are fine, but there are those really small things that often cause great problems as they live together. For example, one of my married sisters and her husband were seriously fussing one time, but it was for something could only be solved by a proper approach to it. While they were fussing, I said aloud, “[laugh]…..I can’t wait ’til I get married.” They both simultaneously began to laugh. It was my intention to have them laugh too, because I was just reminding them that they both loved each other and that they should be careful not to let such simple misunderstanding cause really big problems. I focus greatly on character. Hey, Cycads, again, really great post. [laugh]…..I still love it. Hey is your native language English? If not then………..wow. Let me study with YOU. Forgive me for my uhh…..”short” post too. heh..

  9. [response to last received message] Actually, it is all those things, well, except maybe for the uhh….”petite” form. Hehe. I have some other preferences. Hihi. It’s not just Asian girls though. I’d love to hear the accent of that significant other, and also love to share the “embarrassment”–if you will–of trying to learn and possibly use the other person’s language as difficult as it may be. I’ve been trying to learn a some languages in advance though. I love learning them too. Currently, one of my majors is English (my native language). I’m aiming to get my bachelors in it, though I’d love to try and do what I love now, which is teach what I know in a different country AND hopefully in a different language. Learning a language, requires understanding of culture for sure, so I can’t escape that part😛. I’m studying the languages myself and always trying to development very effective methods for learning languages or anything so that I may share that with others as well. But yeah, I’d love all that stuff. Sure not everything about the other’s culture may fascinate or please me, but I’d like to try some of those things out anyway. Well, maybe not all the foods, and I can’t dance so, yeah, some restrictions. [laugh]…

  10. Okay, Averill. I get it. You love culture and languages.

    So far, you haven’t mentioned any culture or any language or a specific kind of ‘foreigness’ which you find fun and attractive. I find that a problem. But first, I shall tell you a story to put my grievances in context:

    The guy I talked about in my post, Jake, besides assuming that Malaysian women are hot he doesn’t actually care why he’d like to find a partner from there. This occurred to me when I asked him, “What’s so special about Malaysians? What about Thai women for example?”

    “I’ve already had one”.

    Now, you’ve said that you’re looking for The One. But unlike Jake, who clearly isn’t is not fussed about who he dates as long as they’re ‘Asian’ so that he can tick off his Asian fetishist’s list. But what does he mean by ‘Asian’ exactly? If he’s a student at Oxford and an international student himself he can’t use that term the way he used to in the US which would automatically mean Korean/Chinese/Japanese. Surely he does not mean Tajik or Bengali.

    The problem that I’m trying to articulate is the homogenisation of people who live outside North America and West Europe as ‘foreign’, and by foreign I mean from many developing, former European colonies, non-English speaking third world nations. When you say the nondescript ‘foreign’, cultures and languages (other than your own) that you so love do you mean from the places I’ve mentioned above?

  11. Oh, well, when I say foreign, I mean foreign. Of course, I have my preferences in appearance just as much as the girl. I may not be a model, but I think I at least get a passing grade [laugh]….What’s beautiful to me is the same for any female. That’s also why I would still take of my own ethnicity. Many Asian females (I’m mainly knowledgeable of Japanese, Chinese, Malaaaaaysian hehe, Philippines India or Indonesia, and uhh…I think that’s all I know of mainly) fit very very well in those preferences. However, I don’t limit my interest to those groups. I like how many Arabic (or similar I guess) women look too. Very lovely. My preferences came waaaaay from time in elementary school after the arrival of a certain new student whose beauty I was and often still am, entranced by, but her character I had to question. She was kinda like the girl next door, whatever that means, but actually about 3 houses from mine where I could see it clearly. I was very shocked to know that this girl who had come from Virginia, had also happen to live so close. I was a weakest link I guess in class, so self introduction was far out of the question. I still don’t know her well, but I will always know that there is only one girl created for me. Hey, if you’re a student right now or a former student, what was or is your major? If English is one, could I like get some copies of your writings? If you have other majors that gave you the writing knowledge you have now, I’d like to hear about those too. I want to try and see what I can learn from you because man………..you write very well and the information given and used by you in your writing is very well used. [sniff-sniff]……Just beautiful. [laugh]….Seriously though. I love it. Your messages look like published writings in magazines or books. I want mine to have that feeling too. I’ve never seen anyone even businesses send messages like ya’. What’s your secret? 8P

  12. I’m a grad student in Gender Studies, but as an undergrad I majored in Genetics. Yes, scientists are not known to be great communicators but I owe it to plenty of reading and more reading, and a little bit of writing of course. My writings are far from academic but you are free to copy them for personal use as long as you properly cite them.

  13. Pingback: The first Asian Women Carnival! « Cycads

  14. I agree that some American guys perceive Asian girls as the mysterious conquest and this has been a subject of many conversations among my friends. I’m a little alarmed to read it as a form of colonialism. A search of the definition yielded “a : control by one power over a dependent area or people b : a policy advocating or based on such control”.

    It is hard to draw a line from obsessive yellow fever to tyranny.

  15. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

    ….

    Tell me I’m not the only one who saw the Creep Factor™ in that statement.

    Jason: No, no, it’s actually quite easy to draw the line, especially when we look back to writings which compare women’s bodies in general to land and property.

    • No, you’re not the only one. Let me guess, by ‘heaven’ he meant have lots of lovely beaches, lots of sun, and strange and wonderful food? Yes.

      • Uhhmm….no that’s not what I meant about the heaven. [sigh]….I just meant that the girl will be very different, her race and her character, from what I am commonly accustomed to find. Again, I said that her race will just help amplify the idea of her being different. I’m working hard to be a good person, but you know, many times it’s difficult to look how women (any race) end up making the wrong choice in guys, and also she may be significantly poor in her character. And also dealing with the type of guys that “get around” who remind you how bad they make the possibility of a really loving relationship seem non-existent. AGAIN, I don’t expect perfection at all, but I am looking for a girl of very good character and there are many many girls like that. Just so hard to find them. [laugh]….But yeah, that’s all I meant about the heaven thing. Sorry about that misunderstanding and that with the :S trophy idea. Incorrect choice of WORDING.

  16. Hm? [Laugh]….It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.

  17. It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn’t matter that you didn’t mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail. (And an English major, I am ashamed.)

    The company of women is not something to be “earned”. By saying that, you frame women as something to be “earned”, thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.

    It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former’s amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you’re just backpedaling.

    It is clear you do not even see how you have Other’d cultures different from your own, and women in general.

    It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.

    Hell, you know what, I don’t even care what you meant right now.

    Sorry, cycads, for feeding the troll.

  18. [Laughing]………………………Very interesting. Wow, you upset? Anyway, yes, the company of a woman is to be earned. And yes, her favor for you, as a friend or whatever more, is a great trophy. Trophies can be won by honest means or by dishonest means, and if you win them by dishonest means, then you will lose whatever it meant to have it. If you win it by honest means, then you will keep forever everything it means to have it. Last, if you don’t win it, then think carefully and understand why you could not obtain it and how you can do better next time. What you learn you may pass on to others so that they too, may have a greater understanding. However, I do not mean that they are simply material items [laugh]…. Their hearts will remain as valuable as they make them. It seems that you have quite a few things on your mind Jha, that may be causing you not to think or see clearly what I have presented. [laugh]…It’s not so pleasant to me that my efforts to promote something good be seen as just a pretty face for an inevitable darker existence. Nice Guy-ism™ ? [laugh]…..No, I’m not a fool, but you may call me such in regards to my proposed intentions for good. Oh, and what do you mean I don’t see how other cultures are different from my own? I definitely see and know that the cultures differ greatly from my own and the women of those different cultures differ because of them or just are different. [laugh]…..I got a head ache…[laugh]….Oh, hey if you have any suggestions for correction in my writing, let me know. [laugh]….I broke a few sentence rules here, but yeah. Hey, you’ve heard of metaphors, similes, and hyperboles haven’t you?

  19. Stop [laugh]ing, Averill, it only increases the creep factor. You’re talking about real, live people with their own thoughts, agency and lives and blatantly considering them ‘trophies’, things, objects, not people. I’m afraid Jha sees more clearly than you do what it is you’re presenting, an abusive, patriarchal mindset that views Asian women as the ‘virgin soil’ for the spreading of seed, the ultimate ‘trophy’, a pretty little angel doll to take off the shelf, regardless of what’s actually best for HER. Ever occur to you that the angel is probably best off in Heaven? So long as you consider a woman something to be checked off on the scorecard of what you want out of life, you will never have a truly fulfilling relationship.

    In the very likely case that this is all going over your head, start here: Women, of any race, are NOT trophies and it is never, never, NEVER okay to speak of them as such.

    • Uhm…..My original post here in response to the post made by the person who wrote this blog, was related to the blog and thus asian females. However, even in my responses to the writer, I pointed out that I don’t dismiss my my interest in any other woman of another ethnicity. [Laugh]…..I take it that you, Edel, are a woman, and possibly single. If so, then there’s a good chance that you too may not be seeing clearly what I have presented. If not, then [laugh]….It’s ok. I have only informed any of the people who have considered my messages that I have good intention and I do understand that my “intention” may be seen as futile to most people who have not yet found “some things”. [smile]…..When I referred to trophies, I wasn’t just speaking of the heart of an Asian or foreign woman, I was speaking of any woman, and the trophy of a man’s love and care to a woman. You are not even trying to say “Oh, well, he doesn’t mean to refer to the woman’s heart/love as just something to toss around. He’s just speaking figuratively with no means to be careless in disrespect”. Instead, you’re just saying “(reading)……TROPHIES!!! I KNOW HE DIDN’T JUST REFER TO WOMEN AS TROPHIES! WHAT A JERK! I’m gonna tell him off!” I’m sorry, but that’s…….[laugh]…sorry that’s just stupid. [laugh]….But yeah. You, or you both if you both still don’t see, may need to refer to the writer of this blog or examine the things I and the writer have said to each other. Even the writer had some questions after reading from me, but I cleared that up. View Asian women as a “virgin soil”. [Laugh]….Man, that’s crazy. I don’t any woman in such a manner. That’s a big offense to ME. You both may also no, that HEY I’m a virgin too, made FROM THE SOIL, THE GROUND. [laugh]…..I don’t view asian or foreign woman like that. I view them as females. I will say to myself about any woman, “She looks nice.” or “Heh….I should keep looking.” But ultimately, even if she is put in either of those uhh…categories. [laugh]….How I actually judge–no, I want to use a word like that, you may completely misunderstand. I’ll say uuh….How I “view her as a person” is a completely different thing. Sure she may be extremely beautiful, but if she shows that she is of a corrupt or not so favorable heart, then I definitely say pass. Hey…I’m not a perfect guy, so I don’t look simply for perfection, although the idea of an angel shows perfection, but I look for the PERFECT FIT–no, you may misunderstand that too. Let me think of another description……hmmmm….OH, PERFECT MATCH for me. [laugh]….I’m not selfish in my desire for her company either. What I WILL be rightfully greedy of is her happiness though. [laugh]….I just want her to be happy, and her happiness with me for me is what I value the most. I’m not saying that I will just be a jealous or over protective of her. I will trust her. I can only hope that she trust me too. I won’t force her, and I won’t buy her trust. Of course, I will want some things for myself, but I will only want them to be mine with her willing. But yeah. I think I’ve addressed everything you’ve said. By the way, I’d really like to apologize for describing the heart of a woman to be a trophy only because of your last little sentence [laugh]….But I won’t. Everyone should love each other, and with that love will be trust. That trust can be broken or damaged greatly beyond full repair in some cases. What I mean is that automatically, any woman should love me just because I am a person, a child of everything. Our bodies age, but our spirits don’t. For everything we encounter is new to us, and as long as there is something we have not yet understood, we are children. Every man should love every woman as well, and woman love woman (sisters), and man love man (brothers). However, the love can be extremely strong between some. That stronger love is A TROPHY. The love (not sex) between a man and a woman is another kind of trophy, and it is EARNED by greater obstacles in the life between a man and a woman. THE BODY OF A WOMAN TO A MAN OR A MAN’S BODY TO A WOMAN, IS NOT THE TROPHY. That’s probably where you misunderstood. Hey Good luck with all your trophies. And good luck on your search. [smile]…..{{{Ooo, I get extra points if I’m right about you being single}}}:P

      • Of course. If a woman can’t understand what you’re projecting, there must be something wrong with her, right? She’s got something on her mind, like you think Jha does, or she’s probably lonely, like you want to believe I am. There can’t possibly be anything wrong with the way you’re presenting yourself, can there?

        Seriously, if you want to put yourself on the market for an Asian wife, maybe you should pay attention to the critique you are getting from Oh, guess who? Asian women!

        No, love of any sort is not and never will be a trophy. You know what a trophy is? It’s a thing that people compete over and then display to show others that they won. The trophy itself doesn’t matter. The status you gain by having it does. By referring to PEOPLE as trophies, whether you mean their hearts or their bodies, you demonstrate that you don’t care about them as actual people. It’s the difference between saying, “This is my significant other. Isn’t she amazing?” and “This is my significant other. Aren’t I amazing for getting her?” You might not realize it but when you call someone or their love a trophy, you reveal that you are willing to USE another person to make yourself look like less of a loser.

        In case you’re still not figuring this out, here’s a quick list of your red flag behavior:

        1) Expressing a desire to spread your seed – Oh, really, your seed is special enough to need spreading. And Asian women are good soil for the spreading.

        2) Valuing Asian women for their ‘purity’ – As if you have a stake in it or a right to it in any form, and in a blog post that explicitly outlines the problem as “that women from distant, foreign lands are perceived to be and treated like untouched, uncharted territory. The last frontiers of MANkind, so to speak.” That point went way over your head, clearly.

        3) Coming to an Asian woman’s blog and dropping transparently corny lines about the quality of her writing.

        4) The [laugh]ing – Seriously, it reeks of trying too hard to appear innocuous and the fact that you use it to laugh off the concerns of the real live Asian women before you isn’t helping.

        5) Wanting to ‘pull an angel from the heavens’ – What kind of sadistic bastard would it take to want this? And where did you get the idea that Asian women are serene little ‘angels’ in the first place?

        6) Insisting that the trophy talk is okay. No, sweetpea, it isn’t. Get over it.

        7) Using patronizing and belittling language in your responses. ‘Wow, you upset?’ ‘It seems you have quite a few things on your mind.’ ‘[laugh]… sorry, that’s just stupid.’ ‘Your posts frankly just reek of “silly women, they just can’t understand.” Stop and think for a second. If Asian women are the preferred target audience for your version of self-promotion and they aren’t ‘getting it’, maybe the problem’s on your end.

        It’s telling that all your responses here have been about what YOU want and why YOU want it and what YOU need and how other people can fulfill YOUR life. What are you offering in return? What’s so great about you that women should want you? What are you doing to truly learn to understand the hypothetical (Asian) woman of your dreams? From the looks of things, it sure isn’t listening.

      • (DELETE IF POST IS A REPEAT. THIS IS A RESPONSE TO EDEL’S POST.)

        [Laughing]…………………..Wait, let me look at the things I should address again in your writing……..[laugh]…..Ok, 1. It’s not whether or not a WOMAN understand what I am “projecting”. It’s anyone. I also don’t just put myself out on the market for asian woman. Did you reaTd all of what i wrote to the writer of this blog? 2. The trophy idea. [laugh]….Good gracious, I should just use another metaphor. You are really TRYING/DELIBERATELY/CARELESSLY taking it waaaaaay out of what you SHOULD know I mean. I mean really, do you really believe that I mean it like the way you make it seem? “This is my significant other. Aren’t I amazing for getting her?”[laugh]….I will have to be just as equally valuable as she is, whatever ethnicity she may be. I’m not selfish in that manner. I know that if I want a girl of a certain character, then I will need to be able to give her the same and hopefully, for her, much much more. Nah, I wouldn’t want to use someone simply to make myself look like a loser [laugh]…But I would love to brag about my wife, but if I am shortcoming of the things I brag about her possessing, then I am not fair to her. What I mean is that I would give notice to the wonderful person I’ve earned with the same exact things she has earned from me. I guess the the trust is the main thing you’ll actually “earn”. But of course I with that trust follows other things. 3. The idea of me “SPREADING MY SEED” I never said that :s That really sounds bad. [laugh]…I may have said “the seeds of our love”, not my seed. However, I did mention the changing in bloodline. I won’t explain it again here. You should really read and properly view everything I said to the writer of this blog. And uhh….no, I also explained in this blog about my choice of an asian female. 4. I DON’T VALUE OR SEE ONLY ASIAN WOMEN simply as purity. I explained that too. [sigh]…Aiyaiyaiya…..I mentioned that the idea of my wife being of a different ethnicity ju–look, just look at what I wrote to the blogger for this topic. I also included my own ethniiiiiiicity. Look at my first response to this blog. “Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds.” (restating title to make sure you know I’m still mindful of the topic). I explained the whole idea and my idea on the topic. The writer responded, and I back. Read it all, hope you understand. 5.I DO love her writing. I’ve actually been trying to help people from different countries with their English, and to see hers, and to see it better than mine–not saying mine is perfect or super great–I like it. [laugh]…And my laughs ([laugh]…) or laughing ([laughing]………………) Are just my way of letting you get a better idea of my mood and how I am reminded once again how interesting life is. It goes up and down, but is always interesting, because it gives you new ways to view things all the time.6 The pull from the heavens, ok, have you ever heard of a hyperbole? Ok, my heavens thing may not exactly be a hyperbole [laugh]…..but I was just mentioning again the idea of obtaining something that stands out from what most people are accustomed to witnessing. [Laugh]….Totally not understanding what I meant. I wasn’t just referring to Asian women. I was referring to foreign women, or ANY woman, including my own ethnicity, who is far different from most women. Sure there is no perfect girl, but there is one for every man, and neither of them are the same. And the same is so for every man for women. I only address asian women because the conversations kinda drifted into that after I mentioned my OWN personal preferences. I even said that if my wife is of my own ethnicity, it’s super fine for me. She is still a great person to have. I even explained my interests in women in general and how my interest did move in the direction of Asian or other foreign women. 7. My sayings like “…something on your mind….yadayada..” and “…[laugh]….yada that’s just stupid….”, when I said the thing about the stupid idea, I was talking about how you are sounding in your response and how you are really carelessly viewing the things I have said. The thing about something being on your mind, “reeks” more of “hmmm, from how this PERSON (man/woman), something, some kind of experience or something they have in their knowledge is blocking them from just relaxing and just properly taking what I’m saying. Yeeeeesh!” 8. I have also mentioned earlier in this blog in my message to the writer, I’m sure, about what I have in return. I have also mentioned to you or the other person that responded to me, that I am not perfect and I know that whatever I wish to have from her, I must also be able to give back because a great person, the girl, will deserve so much for who she is. So yeah, I’m continuing my work with myself as well. [smile]…I gotta be a great guy for her too. Oh, and you never told me if you are single or not Edel.😛

  20. Well, ew.

    Why don’t you spend some time actually listening to women, reading their thoughts on this matter, before shooting your mouth off.

    No, wait, that would entail you actually giving up your illusion that the “perfect match” exists, and actually talking about women like they’re actual people. Never mind.

    • [Laugh]….Uhhh…I was responding to the original post itself, and any other response was to you or the other person responding to me. I don’t need someone else’s opinion to define my own. That’s stupid [laugh]….I just gave my thoughts in relation to the post by the writer, or anyone who has directed messages at me. I listen to women all the time, and I don’t believe that I’ve read any of the responses to this post here, because again, I was just giving my thoughts. None of my expressed thoughts should have offended anyone. If you were offended by any of my words relating to the topic of this post, then you are not thinking clearly on what I’m presenting. Look at how you go again mentioning the idea of how I address women. I’m speaking of men too to the women. And did YOU, JHA, read the post by Edel, and my response to hers? Doesn’t sound like you did. If you did, then you’re just blind to what I’m saying. I’m not being careless to disrespect anyone, and I’m steady trying to make sure that’s clear, but you instead you’re just growling at me too loud to hear what I’m telling you. And for you to call the idea of the PERFECT MATCH an ILLUSION, you are hopeless, and because you’re hopeless, you don’t view things as you should. Maybe you must have had some bad experiences with guys or women (I’m guessing you’re a woman). No woman, or man, with the proper heart will call the idea of finding the person who was made for you, an illusion. Of course the quest is hard, and you may find a lot of bad matches. [laugh]….DUH!! But there is always someone else who will find interest you, whom you may wish to marry, and who may wish also to live together with you all your lives. Straighten your hair, and make yourself presentable, it’s time for you to find the man of your heart. [smile]….Good luck.

  21. [Laughing]…………………..Wait, let me look at the things I should address again in your writing……..[laugh]…..Ok, 1. It’s not whether or not a WOMAN understand what I am “projecting”. It’s anyone. I also don’t just put myself out on the market for asian woman. Did you reaTd all of what i wrote to the writer of this blog? 2. The trophy idea. [laugh]….Good gracious, I should just use another metaphor. You are really TRYING/DELIBERATELY/CARELESSLY taking it waaaaaay out of what you SHOULD know I mean. I mean really, do you really believe that I mean it like the way you make it seem? “This is my significant other. Aren’t I amazing for getting her?”[laugh]….I will have to be just as equally valuable as she is, whatever ethnicity she may be. I’m not selfish in that manner. I know that if I want a girl of a certain character, then I will need to be able to give her the same and hopefully, for her, much much more. Nah, I wouldn’t want to use someone simply to make myself look like a loser [laugh]…But I would love to brag about my wife, but if I am shortcoming of the things I brag about her possessing, then I am not fair to her. What I mean is that I would give notice to the wonderful person I’ve earned with the same exact things she has earned from me. I guess the the trust is the main thing you’ll actually “earn”. But of course I with that trust follows other things. 3. The idea of me “SPREADING MY SEED” I never said that :s That really sounds bad. [laugh]…I may have said “the seeds of our love”, not my seed. However, I did mention the changing in bloodline. I won’t explain it again here. You should really read and properly view everything I said to the writer of this blog. And uhh….no, I also explained in this blog about my choice of an asian female. 4. I DON’T VALUE OR SEE ONLY ASIAN WOMEN simply as purity. I explained that too. [sigh]…Aiyaiyaiya…..I mentioned that the idea of my wife being of a different ethnicity ju–look, just look at what I wrote to the blogger for this topic. I also included my own ethniiiiiiicity. Look at my first response to this blog. “Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds.” (restating title to make sure you know I’m still mindful of the topic). I explained the whole idea and my idea on the topic. The writer responded, and I back. Read it all, hope you understand. 5.I DO love her writing. I’ve actually been trying to help people from different countries with their English, and to see hers, and to see it better than mine–not saying mine is perfect or super great–I like it. [laugh]…And my laughs ([laugh]…) or laughing ([laughing]………………) Are just my way of letting you get a better idea of my mood and how I am reminded once again how interesting life is. It goes up and down, but is always interesting, because it gives you new ways to view things all the time.6 The pull from the heavens, ok, have you ever heard of a hyperbole? Ok, my heavens thing may not exactly be a hyperbole [laugh]…..but I was just mentioning again the idea of obtaining something that stands out from what most people are accustomed to witnessing. [Laugh]….Totally not understanding what I meant. I wasn’t just referring to Asian women. I was referring to foreign women, or ANY woman, including my own ethnicity, who is far different from most women. Sure there is no perfect girl, but there is one for every man, and neither of them are the same. And the same is so for every man for women. I only address asian women because the conversations kinda drifted into that after I mentioned my OWN personal preferences. I even said that if my wife is of my own ethnicity, it’s super fine for me. She is still a great person to have. I even explained my interests in women in general and how my interest did move in the direction of Asian or other foreign women. 7. My sayings like “…something on your mind….yadayada..” and “…[laugh]….yada that’s just stupid….”, when I said the thing about the stupid idea, I was talking about how you are sounding in your response and how you are really carelessly viewing the things I have said. The thing about something being on your mind, “reeks” more of “hmmm, from how this PERSON (man/woman), something, some kind of experience or something they have in their knowledge is blocking them from just relaxing and just properly taking what I’m saying. Yeeeeesh!” 8. I have also mentioned earlier in this blog in my message to the writer, I’m sure, about what I have in return. I have also mentioned to you or the other person that responded to me, that I am not perfect and I know that whatever I wish to have from her, I must also be able to give back because a great person, the girl, will deserve so much for who she is. So yeah, I’m continuing my work with myself as well. [smile]…I gotta be a great guy for her too. Oh, and you never told me if you are single or not Edel.😛

      • Sure I do! I can’t help that I write more succintly than you do, and read more comprehensively. Oh, sorry, were you not aware of all the common, ill-advised tropes that your oh-so-innocent-and-worshipful metaphors were invoking? You do now!

      • Huh??? You know, I didn’t want to come to this, but [laugh]….You’re s–No, gotta fight it. [laugh]……I explained everything on my part and explained everything you misunderstood or I misworded (if that’s a word. :P). However, you continue to try and make me into an enemy. What kind of guy are you looking for?! The one that gets on here and says “[speaking in heavy stupid sounding voice]….Hey! I can’t help it if I like to get those asian goodies or foreign goodies!! That’s just my preferences. Besides women are just for satisfying men and making babies.” That’s what you want Jha? You want that so that you can really find a reason to act stuck up?? Sorry, I’m just TRYING TO BE NICE TO the angry dog who just got kicked by it’s owner. Sure you have reason to be disappointed in men (from whatever country other than your own), but don’t keep spitting back in MY face because you got something stuck in your butt. [laugh]…Sorry, take that how you want to, but YEAH. I explained what I meant, and you should know that I, this person, don’t mean it in the negative ways you are making it seem. READ everything I said, and get a PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATOR to tell help you understand if you english is not your first language. Just doesn’t make sense how you keep just throwing the things I say waaaaaay out of proportion. Cycads came at me much more correctly. And again, if you’ve missed it from your uhh, “fitting follow-up”, What the heck kind of guy are you looking for? (That IS NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION) And I know you aren’t looking for anyone from a country different from your own. That would just put you in the bad category for the BAD guys that are suggested in Cycad original post. So that would make you just completely in disagreement with INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE! How wonderful!

  22. “the angry dog who just got kicked by it’s owner.”

    Yeah, see, I was gonna try to engage, but you know what, my first instinct was right: fuck you. How dare you compare me to an animal? What gives you the right? Just because I swear and don’t behave the way you think I should behave? This proves nothing more than you have NO CLUE what you’re really saying, what misogynistic bullshit is coming out of your mouth without you even realizing it.

    “Get a professional translator”, even! We need an intersectional anti-racism and anti-feminist bingo card here, STAT!

    And finally, the problem isn’t with interracial marriage. Nothing wrong with a personal preference for Asian women. Some men, whatever race, just have those preferences, or just so happens their partner is Asian. It’s with the fetishization of Asian women that is problematic. If you don’t understand what the problem with this is, I suggest you shut up, go away, and do some reading. Google is your friend. I am not. We were never on friendly terms, you and I. If you were really trying to be my friend, you’d try to understand my point of view as an Asian woman, rather than try to pathologize me and categorize my problems as if I’m oh-so-simple to understand.

    The fact you even think you were being friendly, when we’ve made it clear you were not, is mind-boggling, yet, sadly enough, not surprising.

  23. If it is sooooo okay to you about asian (although I was speaking about any race foreign to my own) women being with those guys, then why come at me as you did the first and other times? You look at what you said too “….If you were really trying to be my friend, you’d try to understand my point of view as an Asian woman…” Why don’t you look at it from the perspective of the accused as well? Oh, and I referred to you, the barking woman, because you barking waaaaay to loud to hear, not because of your cursing. Oh, and about the “f*ck you” thing. Sorry, you’re definitely not my type, acting the way you do. And goodness, you could have at least asked me to marry you first. Yeeesh! [grabs her and stills a kiss and quickly gets back as she lashes at me with great force]…….Haha. Naaaanaaana-naaaa-naaaaah.😛

    • Wow, that entire comment was rude.

      Jha wasn’t courting you so you’re not in a position to say “oh you’re not my type”. And you want to “still” a kiss, do you? (Hint: it’s “steals”, Mr Fake English Major.)

      You’re like the opposite of charming.

      • Oh! Hehe…..oops. Little mistake there….hehe…Uhhm, I know she wasn’t just kidding with her and I said the whole kiss thing because it was the best thing I could think of to brush off her tough “f**k you” comment. Can’t you see that? And how is that entire comment insulting? (rhetorical question, but you can answer). I let that go on the part with the barking thing, but the rest? Hmmmm, Tiara….I see. You know, it’s funny because if anyone of the people responding to me negatively met me, you’d have no idea that you’re the friend of the guy you’re making me out to be here. [laugh]….Life is ever so interesting. Oh, and yeah, good catch Tiara with the “still/steal” thing. [smile]…

      • If I’m somehow friends with you IRL then I’d like to know who you are so I can get you out of my life!

        “brush off her tough comment” with a stupid sexist remark? Yeah, you’re still an arse.

      • My “sexist” remark? Uhhm…You sure that’s sexist? And noooooo, if I’m an arse, then you-are-too. We’re the same species!😀 V.V (And now comes the part where someone says that I’M disrespecting WOMEN. Look at newton’s 3rd law of motion.)

  24. @Averill

    This whole thing is a little TL;(but I read it anyway) for me to go at it point by point, but I’ll just comment on a few things that jumped out at me.

    1) the notion of women from Asian culture being “purer” and more “virtuous”:
    This is more often then not a code word for “submissive” and “obedient”, so unlike the outspoken, assertive, and I think this is a key point whenever someone talks about purity and virtue, woman. Surely are not unaware of the associations of the words in this context?

    I would hasten to point out that Asian marriages tend not to end in divorce because cultural conditioning makes it so that the wife endures and is forbidden from expressing her unhappiness or indeed acting upon it.

    2) You’re being pretty condescending with the commentary on people’s english usage. It’s either gushing praise that comes of as…shall I say, trying too hard, or “Oh you poor dear, English isn’t your first language?”

    3) “And I know you aren’t looking for anyone from a country different from your own.” Come now, really? I’d love to see the justification for this gem .

    4) Basically the whole thing comes off as objectification and trying too hard. You see this ideal woman of yours as something that will make you happy, and write entire paragraphs on her and what you want her to be while making platitudes about how you are okay with imperfections and you want to please her too. C’mon. It doesn’t work that way. *coughs*

    Good god. that took me 25 minutes of my life.

    • Ok, now to addressing each of Cycads concerns.

      1. I said: “I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.”Then after you noted it from me, I responded with this: “The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman. Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea.” It’s not just foreign women, it’s women of my own too. Again I mentioned my preference for the appearance of women “[response to last received message] Actually, it is all those things, well, except maybe for the uhh….”petite” form. Hehe. I have some other preferences. Hihi. It’s not just Asian girls though. I’d love to hear the accent of that significant other, and also love to share the “embarrassment”–if you will–of trying to learn and possibly use the other person’s language…….Sure not everything about the other’s culture may fascinate or please me, but I’d like to try some of those things out anyway. Well, maybe not all the foods, and I can’t dance so, yeah, some restrictions. [laugh]…”Oh and about the divorce thing, YEAH. For me too. Of course, I can only pray that I am the husband he wants me to be to her. And yeah, I know about that stuff too Cycads about the cultural/ traditional idea to endure and stuff, but hopefully my wife won’t have to endure anything except for my snoring. [laugh]…I’ve heard that I snore sometimes at night.
      2. Ok, that was offensive for me to say such, but I was in a way serious because it seemed waaay too out of proportion how I was being approached even as I tried to address the specific things. So yeah, I apologize for that to everyone. Sorry. X(
      3. Well, I said that because she was clearly attacking me. I don’t know what she looks for, she probably seeks only foreign guys, and her feelings and fears on the idea are expressed through what she says. So yeah, maybe that’s it. I think she let me know later though, that she didn’t feel a prejudice for foreign guys. Anything I continued on with that was to clear up anything else she went on about.
      4. I guess all I can say here is that, I initially just gave my point on the matter, although what I said is already what you all may have heard and would love to believe, only to say it again to speak for myself. Many guys are being offended in a sense here too. The good guys. They know you have reason to hold your heart with great strength from them, but that doesn’t mean that those good guys won’t still say to you, ” I love you will all my heart and with all my love and heart I will make you happy all the later days we may live to know each other”. Sure it sounds repetitve, but doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist because it’s hard to find. There are many good guys out there, but most guys and man period have given males a really bad image. [laugh]…That’s why I laugh whenever I hear a girl say to other girls “Men are dogs” or “Men only want one thing.” I laugh because it’s hard to say that it’s not all men when women have soooooo many reasons to prove so, but I still say “Hey, not all men. Not ME.” I’ve only heard girls say this that know me, and they always follow up with “[laugh]….Yeah, not you, but most men. [laugh]…” Yeah, for me to search for MY IDEAL woman is to make any woman that fits it objective to my interests, yeah, that makes sense, but goodness, again, I don’t my happiness to be my own. Any person that fits the interests of someone else would be an objective to their interests. It’s up to that objective person to decide if you are also an object of their interests too. I don’t want my interests to shield her true self. I know I am not a perfect person, no one is, but I pray to God that I am perfect to my wife, and Him and she is perfect to me and Him. I mean perfect fit for me and her. People try to through that idea out of context.

  25. OK, FIRST OFF, I HOPE EVERYONE SEES HOW CYCADS RESPONDED TO ME. She addressed everything in a correct manner showing that she doesn’t want to take any chance of not being unclear on what to address. She even numbered the things she wished to point out to me. Thank you Cycads. [laugh]…

    • She addresses everything in the correct manner? What the hell?

      She may have schooled you properly on what the right thing to do was. But her effective, level-headed communication (WITH NUMBERS) does not excuse the fact that you traipsed in here, la-dee-dah, made a few statements that angered people, made horrible analogies, got schooled, repeatedly, while patting people condescendingly on the head…

      I accept my lessons from people who teach. Not perps like you. Back off.

      • Uhmmm…….just because someone comes back at you screaming and sometimes name-calling doesn’t mean you got “schooled”. Just means they screamed at you and called you names. You gotta look at what’s really happening T-bo–Wow, another guy. Cool! But yeah, I don’t mean Cycads screamed at me, she comes off more calmly then the others. “Horrible apologies” [smile]….boy, boy, boy. [laugh]…..

      • Just because someone replies in a long winded and pretentious manner without using profanity does not mean they made a valid point either – you addressed nothing of substance and condescend to patting people on the head like they are little children. That’s BS.

      • It’s nice to see that the pretentiousness and the condescending language you seem so fond of is used not only with women, but with men too.

        At least you’re consistent. Either you’re a troll (in which case, epic performance) or you really are a piece of work.

    • Yeah, uhm, I agree with you on that man. Not really a FETISH for me though. X( It really isn’t. I don’t find interest just in asian women at all. So many different girls catch my attention with their appearance and stuff, but I look for the first best part, her heart. Oh, and also whether or not she may be single.🙂

      • “So many different girls catch my attention with their appearance and stuff, but I look for the first best part, her heart. Oh, and also whether or not she may be single. :)”

        The last sentence makes a lot of difference here – if you wanted to show you are anything but a nice guy creep, that is a clear FAIL.

      • If you don’t notice that this is really very sexist (you would not address an adult male this way, would you? nevermind the kiss stealing bit)… you lack respect, and no it is not defined by mere politeness and refraining from profanity – you clearly have no intention of seriously listening to the points raised against you with anything more then “[laughs]”

      • Averill,

        Clearly, your [laughs] and [smiles] are there to make you appear as the more emotionally-controlled and rational party here, but as you’re sat furiously typing your thoughts out, it might be a different picture.

        I’ve been reading (with a lot of patience) your comments here and find them condescending. At times you can be gauche (i.e. asking Edel her relationship status. Repeatedly.) and downright immature (i.e. stealing – excuse me while I gag as I type this – virtual kisses). Why do you deserve sympathy?

      • *GAME OVER*
        [Presses reset button]……[Loading]…..
        [Game Starts]…

        *Tries to enter code quickly* Ok, plain and simple. Ok, I like a girl who looks pretty to ME and is a very beautifully spirited girl. Just so happen that there are girls all over the world who fit my preferences. There are many here where I am too, but I’ve been learning about things from other places. I love my family so much it’s wonderful. I want others to share that joy and love I’ve gotten from my family through myself. Oooh, I’m studying this language, I could use it also to share conversations with my wife who is from another place. I want to know more about her language and want to experience the things she loves about her culture and stuff too. I also want to have someone to share the laughs and smiles that come from the experience of learning about our cultural and language differences thus helping us grow a fun filled relationship. I want our kids to learn from us and not feel they are restricted to live with their own ethnicity and feel more free to make a variety of healthy choices. Yeah, not all guys are bad. Parents can’t completely control the outcome of their kids spirits, but they can always give them proper direction. [smile]…Yeah, there are a LOOOOOOT of bad guys out there, and a LOOOOOOOOT of bad women, but that doesn’t mean that a person will never find good. Be good, and let those around you, good and bad, learn from your actions not just your words. Do not give recognition to your good deeds unless they are said not to exist. Do your good deeds behind the backs of your friends and your enemies, and do them in front but let them believe that you don’t know they’re watching. [laugh]….If this is good, tell everyone else who loathes me for whatever to see this message.
        [Listens for sound of code success]……

    • I stand corrected. Thanks, KM and cycads. I spoke too soon!

      (And have been dealing with Averill at my place too, so apologies for not responding sooner.)

  26. [smile]….My “smiles and laughs” are just my smiling and little laughs, not at the people or their comments in particular, but just how interesting life is with it’s difficulties. Due to past unpleasant experiences with people treating me unfairly in elementary school, I made a promise to myself during that time that I will always be kind to other people, observe everyone and everything (bad or good), learn from them, and use that knowledge to help my understanding and better communicate and share the things I love, like love itself, with everyone. I’ve kept my promise. As my life went on and still is of course, I’ve kept that promise, and I know my attempt to make the good image being destroyed here in this article continue to be shown in all of it’s glory even if almost everything makes it seem hopeless. I don’t believe you think I’m here to make enemies, or make myself enemy to anyone. I know you saw how others approached me in my ideas. You had a few problems with how they seemed too, but I was sure I straightened that out with you. I know I can’t make women trust guys from what I say. I can only “echo the words of the liar who stole his words from the truth teller”. I said that I ask about Edel’s status because “I believe” that if she wasn’t, then she wouldn’t have responded in the manners she did. Not just try to be messy. I wish to start from scratch though, so I’m going to send a second response to this entire passage.

    • …what the hell are you, 13 years old?

      As far as I know, at least one of the commenters in here, from what I know, have had horrible experiences in elementary and high school (one was almost constantly the target of racism and bigotry throughout her entire school life, and I know what I’m talking about, so don’t get smart with me, boy), and they didn’t turn out to be like you.

      You had a rough childhood? TOUGH! WE ALL DID! SUCK IT UP!

      • Uhhhm…..Where did I show that I never accepted it????? You know, I was mad at my classmate then, but later as time went on going from middle school, I could only thank God that I was given the experience to give my heart better shape. I don’t hold a grudge or hate etc against them either. They are subject to do wrong, very wrong, just like me. The society and/or environment which they lived contributed to their behavior, but mainly the Devil himself.

    • Well, I was responding to Cycads. [laugh]….I’m waiting to hear from her. Hope it’s good. Oh, and can you tell me how I failed in that comment? I need to know specifics because you shouldn’t just say stuff, making claims about something without support. So yeah, tell me.

      • HAHAHHAAHHA. We’ve told you how you failed for AGES and now you want proof? You keep making ridiculous claims and you’re asking us for proof? FAIL.

  27. OK Averill,

    Just need to highlight these bits here:

    [..] Just so happen that there are girls all over the world who fit my preferences. There are many here where I am too, but I’ve been learning about things from other places. [..]

    [..] Oooh, I’m studying this language, I could use it also to share conversations with my wife who is from another place. I want to know more about her language and want to experience the things she loves about her culture and stuff too. I also want to have someone to share the laughs and smiles that come from the experience of learning about our cultural and language differences thus helping us grow a fun filled relationship. I want our kids to learn from us and not feel they are restricted to live with their own ethnicity and feel more free to make a variety of healthy choices. [..]

    All of this sounds really earnest, but I’m not buying any of it I’m afraid Averill.

    Allow me to make some assumptions about you the same way you link assumptions about Edel’s comments and her status (forgive us Edel for talking about you here):

    “I believe” that you will never talk in that kind of earnestness if you knew more about women “of other cultures”. It’s not enough what you learn in class or Lonely Planet guidebooks, but what you need is to go out there physically with the sensitivity and awareness about how the world’s women (and men) view you and not just through your rose-tinted glasses.

    Since you’ve been with us for a while commenting on this blog, you haven’t expressed what languages you’re learning or cultures you’re actually interested in (if you have, please remind me). I’ve marked in bold some words you’ve used in non-specific, airy-fairy terms about your interest in world culture and languages. This is key, and perhaps the reason why you’ve appeared like a total creep despite your grandiose niceness. Many of the commenters here are of Asian-heritage and aware of race politics, and so your tree-hugging new-agey “I love all cultures” comments in an analysis about culture and race just do not fly here.

  28. Yeah, I know what I say here may not be enough convince you all. So yeah. About the learning about the cultures and stuff, I said I study them, but I also said “…I want to know more about her language and want to experience the things she loves about her culture and stuff too. I also want to have someone to share the laughs and smiles that come from the experience of learning about our cultural and language differences thus helping us grow a fun filled relationship.” Yeah, I don’t depend simply on what I learn from books. That won’t get me anywhere [laugh]…Oh. I started studying Japanese, for about one year, and as I studied that I was encountering many people from different countries who wanted me to help them learn to use English (writing, speaking). I’m no real language teacher, just a willing distributor of knowledge. I noticed that many people from China began to ask for my help too (Although I was and still am not perfect with the whole teaching stuff), so I said you know, most of the people contacting me now are Chinese, even though I didn’t put Chinese as a language I know about on the site. So I said to myself that I’d try to learn Chinese, to help them. So I’ve been focusing on chinese, but actually been a bit slacking because I end up being busy with something. I even have tons of studying material. My whole goal for being in school is to get a bachelors in English and teach it as a foreign language in mainly China. I also kinda started studying Portuguese on the side, but actually………because there was a reeeeeally pretty girl that I met, and she liked me, but unfortunately, since I didn’t know much portuguese, I couldn’t communicate with her the way I wanted to. It was an online meet. She seems nice and from what she did say in English, she is a good minded female, wanting a husband who wishes to support her and the family and who loves her. I also liked how many brazillian girls look too. So yeah, that is just my preference again, but again, I don’t use my preference in physical appeal to determine my complete interest. So yeah, right now, studying Chinese, gonna go back to japanese after I get on the same level with it as I am in Japanese, and gonna learn Portuguese on the side. Hope to learn a great deal about them all before I finish school. If somehow, again, my life directs me in another path than China, then yeah, that’s just my life. Oh, and the “I love all cultures” well, I never said anything that, but I’m NOT saying that I don’t love everyone. I love everyone of every nationality, but I have a preference for women. I did indicate that I’d be willing to marry a girl of any other nationality/race as long as she is pretty TO ME. She might be ugly to other people, that’s fine with me. [laugh]….But yeah, if I’m with her, it’s because she is beautiful period. She may not physically pretty to everyone else, but her spirit will be for sure.

  29. This blog post strikes a chord with me; I am an Asian woman living in a foreign land and I seemed to have the ability to attract men with this sort of fetish. Whenever I receive such attention, it is a very uncomfortable feeling: it feels as though he is sexually assaulting me with his eyes and possibly in his mind while talking to me. Moreover, I could tell that he is mentally checking his list of ‘Nationalities to sleep with’ to see if I belong to one of the untick boxes. It is more than just a gross and awful feeling; I feel cheapened and generalised.

    Some people told me before that maybe I should consider dating one since white men treat women better than asian men do. If so, why is there still so much domestic abuse in countries with more white men?

    If a man cannot make me feel special for being who I am, I can not possibly make him feel special for being who he is. I cannot be with a man who only cherish me for being an Asian because I am more than just an Asian: I’m a person with her own mind. I often wish that all Asian fetish men to stay away from me.

    This is my two cents, I hope it’s a good break from the Averill debate.

    • Finally someone with a comment with more relevance to the post! Thanks, Cat.

      In my opinion, the worse bit about the ‘nationalities to sleep with’ checklist is that it’s a lot like the ’50 things to do before getting married’ list. Asian women, and other many non-white women for that matter, become a part of a white man’s wild and adventurous phase before the majority eventually turn to the more conventional and respectable done thing by marrying a decent white woman in the end. Yes, the majority of people still marry like these days.

      I hate being reduced to being someone’s Asian phase.

      • I hope that’s not what you think is my purpose Cycads. Heck, the whole reason I’m still a virgin is because I believe that it should be after marriage, which is after the gf/bf phase, which is best after you and a guy have developed a very strong bond and a pretty much a consistent means for solving any little differences. That’s why I said to you “I only save myself and all my greatest love for my wife and my kids to be.” I love everyone girls and guys, but as my friend and spiritual brothers and sisters, but another expression of love I save for my gf who who I will have chosen because she is fitting to me and I’M FITTING TO HER to be long life companions, thus leading to marriage. That’s why I’m focused on the finding a wife, that’s why I’m not just saying “find a gf”. Again, it moves from friendship, then gf/bf, then marriage. Cycads, I thought you understood that from what I said.😦 [sigh]……

      • And again, it’s not just some specifically Asian interest. It’s for any girl from anywhere, but I’d like to grab a girl of a nationality/race different from my own for the purpose I’ve already described to you.😦 And besides if a girl likes me for my nationality or whatever, then that’s perfectly great for me, that’s a super plus for her, even if I wasn’t interested particularly in a foreign girl, as long as I don’t just get with her blindly not knowing that she could careless about my personality and mind. We’ve already discussed that here and in Jha’s post.

    • Well yeah, Cat but it’s–hey could I email you somehow, just a small piece of information? Yeah, I know how you feel about that, and that’s the way all of the women here feel. It’s not just some asian fetish. I want a foreign wife and I’m particularly interested in Asian or Brazilian. I’m trying to make sure I make that clear to the people who mention to me that idea of me seeking a foreign wife, that I’m not doing so by selfish means. I said:
      “…I want to know more about her language and want to experience the things she loves about her culture and stuff too. I also want to have someone to share the laughs and smiles that come from the experience of learning about our cultural and language differences thus helping us grow a fun filled relationship.”
      I don’t know you’ve seen the post made by jha yet, but I also have already said that I’m not just saying “ooh, asian girl, I don’t care what’s she’s like, she’s asian, that’s good enough for me.” No. That’s why I said here earlier in the post:
      “I will have to be just as equally valuable as she is, whatever ethnicity she may be. I’m not selfish in that manner. I know that if I want a girl of a certain character, then I will need to be able to give her the same and hopefully, for her, much much more.”
      That was when someone thought that I was just trying to get a great girl for a cheap price, you know. I don’t give a over attention to asian. I said this directly in response to that idea to Gareth, saying:
      “I don’t find interest just in asian women at all. So many different girls catch my attention with their appearance and stuff, but I look for the first best part, her heart. Oh, and also whether or not she may be single. :)”
      I wouldn’t simply try to make you feel special for being whatever race you are. I’ll make you feel special for being WHO you are, and what you mean to me. Of course I’ll want to compliment you on your appearance too. I explained the whole thing about me looking for a foreign wife. I’m constantly using “WIFE” because I’m not just looking for a “girl friend”. I’m aiming to have a wife, having the girl friend comes first, but if she is MY girl friend, I will give her no reason to leave. I know what to look for with girls (as far as character), not just foreign, and if she has those qualities in character and how she looks TO ME (again, I’m not including her race), then I would hope to have her hand in a relationship. If that happens WITH ME, then no doubt I’m gonna be married to her later. I have gf’s already, well, female friends already, and know girls who are interested in me (not meaning to sound like I’m bragging), but they don’t exactly fit me as a gf or I have not yet gained enough proof reason why we are fit for each other. I’m VERY focused on how the girl thinks. She can be as beautiful as she wants, but doesn’t mean anything if her heart’s in the wrong place. The same goes for me or any other guy. Hey, could I somehow get your email address just to give you “one sentence” of information” which I think may be affecting how my words are being viewed. If I can get the information to you, tell me if you think it does effect your view and whether or not you think it effected the views of other women here. I never mentioned it here or on the other blog for certain reasons.

    • It is a big lie that white men treat women better than Asian men. It’s part of the propaganda put out by Hollywood and advertising: the white man as hero. If you live in Asia, and know how bad local men can be, it’s easy to be seduced by the idea that foreign men are somehow better. There are male chauvinists and sexist all over the globe, but white men can add racism into the mix, and that’s the unfortunate and disgusting experience you seem to be having. As a white man, I apologise that my brothers are such a disappointment.

  30. Averill,

    Where are your manners? This post analyses what a lot of white men see in Asian women, and I can tell you, they’re not flattering things. This post is not for you to go on and on about your future wife and the great love you have for humanity, save that for another blog. So far it’s been about you, you, you. Further, asking for Cat’s email after she’s expressed her disgust about the way some men have approached her? You think she’d give in to “Hey, could I email you somehow?”? Sheesh.

    • The only reason I’m speaking of anything related to myself in particular, is because I gave my opinion and view on your post. Then after that questions were asked and things were pointed out that seem to be wrong with what I said. I again responded with my view and considering that of others. Everything I’ve been getting now is related to everything I said and if those things directed to me are specifically questioning of what I’M resenting, then I’ll try to address them again while still considering others. The whole thing extended to Jha’s blog which led to the idea of the man:woman relationship, which I then elaborated on in a general manner, not just specifically myself, UNLESS something said was directly questioning or contradicting of my personal self. You’re right, this blog isn’t about me and my own relationship goals. It’s about how men (i believe mainly American) seek ASIAN women, and the purpose of those men. You know that not every man of any nationality would have heartless purposes. I responded to your post to point that out too. Just like when a girl says around me “MEN ARE DOGS”, I’d laugh a bit, and say “Hey. Not all men.” I’ve only been around the girls that know me who I have heard say that. They’d follow after what I say and say “[laugh]….not you.” Hey, I’m not saying you SHOULD say the same, but I am saying that you can’t say otherwise either, at least not about me. I asked her about her email address because I wanted to give her one line of information and I want to know if it has to do with how my interests and words are being taken. I’m not interested in trying to just win her hand in a relationship :s
      Notice these posts:
      “I’d just like to link here my article on the principles that make the objectification of Asian women by white men an abuse of global systemic power structures: http://cycads.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/asian-fetishism-is-sexist-and-racist/
      “Some people told me before that maybe I should consider dating one since white men treat women better than asian men do. If so, why is there still so much domestic abuse in countries with more white men? ”
      “He also didn’t waste time to explain that the reasons behind his quest was down to his general lack of luck with women and self-confessed socially-inept ways. And so like the many sad, lonely white men with money to squander, he’d like to try his luck with Asian women because they, y’know, love white men, are ultra-feminine and so willing to please, and all that BS.”

  31. Cycads:

    You are welcome, I’m glad my comment is of some help; but honestly, I should thank you because you wrote such a wonderful piece of work. It resonates deeply on what I had been through and I know I did not make the whole ‘Asian fetish’ thing up. Some friends from my home country just simply think that I made it all up which upsets me. Nevertheless, it is true that such men really exist. I believe that people need to be aware of this. Hence, I really thank you for writing this. 🙂

    Averill:

    The reason that everybody don’t ‘see’ what you are trying to say is the manner you write. Since you claimed that you are in an English major, I’m sure you understand what I mean by this: It is the writer’s responsibility to get the right message across; this is the most basic criteria for any writer who want to write a book, essay, thesis and article.

    Here, your audience are feminists from asian backgrounds and possibly very sensitive readers because of the nature of this post. Cycads has done well in addressing it without demeaning white men who are not Asian Fetish and offending anyone. She did it well because she is aware on who she is dealing with and understand on how readers will perceive and react to her work.

    As for you, I’m like the rest: I am not convinced by what you wrote. For example, your insistence that you don’t mind having a woman who is not of foreign blood but wants to find a foreign wife simply don’t make sense. Honestly, if you really don’t mind on where she is from, you won’t be that keen on looking for a foreign wife at all – regardless on whether being foreign is an added bonus or not.

    As a reader who is unsure on what you are really trying to say, I cannot take your word for real. Despite English being my first language, I will not try to interpret on what you are really trying to say throughout the whole comment thread as I am already very confused by the contradictions.

    So, it’s a concrete ‘No’ from me in regards of exchanging emails.

    • And okay, no email address. That’s fine. So now I have to say here. I’m not an american white guy. I never said it before for certain reasons of learning more about the common and of course, rightful views from women who speak for the offended group.
      Information from Gareth:

      “Being a white, straight man gives me a ton load of privilege, and that privilege is systemic and global. I am aware of my various privileges and can learn to ‘check them in at the door’, but I can never get rid of them. My privileges are not just to do with me, but they emanate from a system of privilege and prejudice with global reach. Everyone who is white or a man has these privileges, and they are not mitigated by being poor, working class, disabled, gay or being part of any other oppressed minority: you just get the mix of certain privileges with certain prejudices against you (this is intersectionality; more on that later).”
      “The male gaze is sexist when all it sees is a smile, breasts, legs, bottom and so forth. The sufferer of Asian fetishism takes this sexist objectification of women and adds skin tone, cheekbones, small build and slit-eyes into the mix. The sufferer of Asian fetishism does not care what your name is as long as it does not sound too white; he can not tell the difference whether you are Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian or Chinese. ”

      I’ve already spoken about MY interests in women. Physical attraction, yes, but spiritual attraction is required as well. Here I go again speaking about myself, but it’s not just about me, it’s about reminding others that the purpose for seeking an Asian woman (or foreign women) by ANY man is not the same and offensive as Jake’s or most white men seeking Asian girls.

    • Some friends from my home country just simply think that I made it all up which upsets me.

      Oh, Cat, that’s awful! And I thought it was bad that my friends think white men having an Asian fetish is a good thing! >_<

    • Uhhm, you can look for something and it can come to you in another form and from a place you didn’t initially look. However, that doesn’t mean that you still can’t find it where you were looking. Yes, I already know how well she writes, and I have said that this post is what it is, and it is not an offense to non-asian fetish white men. It does however, bring up the question of the purpose of ALL men who seek asian womoen. Also, yes as a majority of women of asian background who are offended by things like Jakes interests, being my audience, you’re gonna be more sensitive to the things I say.

  32. Gareth:

    Thanks for your sentiment. Like you, I am aware that there are male chauvinists and sexists everywhere; hence I find it hard to believe that there are people around me who believe that there is one particular race who treats women better. Living in another country, reading the news and being in touch with the world proves to me that it is just another stereotype of white men. Of course, not all men are horrible and distrustful so I have not lost hope in the opposite sex. I am just more alert of another group of people: Asian fetish. So, please don’t feel bad for being a white man and your fellow brothers, be proud of your heritage and your bloodline; it’s just that there is bound to be some bad eggs in every race. Although I believe it’s not your fault and other white men’s fault, I’m touched by your humble apology and I’m grateful for your understanding.

    Jha:

    Like you, I have friends who think that white men with
    Asian fetish are good too; however, it hurts me more when some people think I made it up. It is really sad on how ‘ignorant’ some people can be.

    Averill:
    There is nothing wrong with Cycads interpretation of your comments.

    Nothing you write convinces anybody other than the constant “Freudian slips” of your desires in every single comment. You seem to be running around with a criteria sheet and that sheet includes “Preferably foreign” option. Looking for the one is not checking out whether she fulfills your criteria; looking for the one is to be with someone you can really click with and you want to spend the rest of your life with her. It doesn’t matter on whether her being foreign will make the relationship better and fun or not; because it seriously mean nothing.

    You keep talking about finding the one with good spirit and so forth; but you still don’t understand the effect “I want a foreign wife more preferably Brazilian or Asian”. That’s why I say that despite everything you wrote, readers are still able to decode on what you are really after, the only thing that no one had said other than myself is the fact that you have a criteria sheet. Though I know most people have a criteria sheet in looking for a partner, they fail to realise that this is not a shopping trip and people are not to be treated as some products in the supermarket. They usually don’t find anyone until they discard their criteria sheet.

    I’m guessing that you are going to come up with a defense to prove me wrong; but I suggest you to re-read your own comments before you start reacting. You might learn something new about yourself.

    I initially did not want to say anything to you because I feel it is unjust for Cycads to have so many comments relating to you; however, I decided to share how I really interprete your comments especially after reading “Here I go again speaking about myself, but it’s not just about me, it’s about reminding others that the purpose for seeking an Asian woman (or foreign women) by ANY man is not the same and offensive as Jake’s or most white men seeking Asian girls.”. It’s proven: You have a criteria sheet and that includes ‘Preferably Asian’. It is just as bad and as disgusting as an Asian fetish. Don’t say that you just want to learn more about different culture and language; you don’t need a girlfriend/wife for all that, you just need to know more people. Don’t say that you believe in sex after marriage; you still have a criteria sheet. Hence, your excuse don’t justify anything.

    Cycads:
    I’m sorry I responded to Cycads.

    • You know, I was sure I’ve already responded to this in a way.
      I DO shop for a girl of a particular spiritual trait and not too specific in personality, because that varies there are many personalities which are all still good to me.

      “Freudian slips” Wow, you’ve taken psychology classes, I take it. I just read some time ago about him and his “theory” which I don’t completely agree with since they are sexually biased. Some stuff about his theory make sense, but mostly it just doesn’t work.

      There are billions of girls all over the world, and there are many many girls who have the “spiritual trait” that I value. There are billions of girls who also have the physical preferences that I like as a man, and just for myself. So yeah, she can be found of my own ethnicity/nationality, but even with that in mind, I still have a choice. I don’t want to just stick to the pattern. I want what I want. It’s not a need. I look out for Asian, Brazilian, Spanish, or whatever else I’m more familiar with. I’m not just trying to wait to travel to find it. I can find it here.

      My goal for finding a foreign wife is NOT TO LEARN ABOUT THE CULTURES AND LANGUAGES. Excluding the whole foreign thing, I just want a good girl, and who is physically attractive to ME. I just want to get a girl of a different nationality/ethnicity. It’s not just Asian or whatever other ethnicity I’ve mentioned. I name chose certain ones because I’m more familiar with them as being pretty good groups to choose from and mainly because I at least have a little knowledge on as far as language. I saw a movie called “if you are the one”, a Chinese movie, and the Chinese guy was describing on a dating site the kind of woman he looks for. I heard him say “modern on the outside, and traditional on the inside”. I loved that phrase because it fit perfectly with what I look for. However, “traditional” here doesn’t mean the man:woman relationship, it means she is firm with her beliefs and so she would be firm with sensitive things like feelings. He also mentioned “demure” nature, I liked the idea, but have to be careful not to focus on it or think of it in the wrong way, which would be as “shy to the point of making yourself seem a bit inferior”. I think that many of the women in those countries/nationalities do often fit those categories too, which is why it’s actually–to me–a compliment to them too, along with the fact that I’m want her to have a good heart and mind of her own. I will support her as a husband, and she will support me as a wife. Well for me, I’ll support her as a husband AND a wife [laugh]….I wouldn’t ever want her to feel like I want her to do for me what I’m not willing to do for her and more. I know not all women from some other country or of different nationality/race are good. Some are bad, or some I may just not be to liking of how she looks to me. Now, I’m no model, but again, how a girl appears to me is my own perception, and how I appear to her is hers too. [laugh]…..yeah, I can do with a man what I can do with a women, but “I CHOOSE A WOMAN”. Sure I can have kids with a bad girl, but “I CHOOSE A GOOD WOMAN”. Sure I can choose a girl of my own ethnicity, but “‘I’D LIKE TO’ HAVE A GIRL OF DIFFERENT ETHNICITY, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I JUST DISCRIMINATE THOSE OF MY OWN ETHNICITY AND I “. Sure I can choose a girl who thinks very little of herself in comparison to others, but “I CHOOSE A GIRL WITH HER OWN MIND AND HEART”. There are basic things that keep every couple or friends together. Those elements are:
      loyalty, willingness, respect, and selflessness.

      Don’t worry, I don’t respond to the things any of you say without thinking and reading carefully. Many of you just often point out what errors may exist in the things I say or bring up new questions. I represent to you some of the same things so that you know that I haven’t forgotten them and I recognize when attention is brought again to the same idea that I have already presented. I try to get to everything in one response, but there’s always something new. Though it’s not always new, since sometimes I’ve already addressed it accordingly, which again, is why I end up copying and pasting what I’ve already said earlier in the post.

      And the sex after marriage thing? How are you gonna say that I don’t believe in that? How are you gonna indicate that it’s not on my “criteria sheet”? I’ll be honest, yeah, as a guy ( that doesn’t mean there aren’t girls–even good ones–that don’t have the same feelings), and a single guy who, because of society AND nature of things, is constantly reminded about the physiology of males and females, and as a living being with a soul to desire the company of another person friend or gf/bf, my mind and brain create my desires, good or bad, but I still will do all that I can to respect my gf/wife, to promise I am loyal and respectful of her. So you can’t just say directly or even hint in this case, that I am a liar. You might be a liar and deceptive about your presented beliefs, but not I–of course that’s just what I’m saying. So again, you’d have to observe it for yourself just as I would have to of you.

      And about Cycads posting stuff about me, she mentioned already to me about me saying stuff about myself and I said–Well, just read from where I started off saying “The only reason I’m speaking of anything related to myself…..” and read on. The act of her responding to what I say is not unjust. I posted related to her original post, and she responded about my thoughts, which was still based on her original post. As she tried to properly evaluate what I presented, she had to dig deeper to see more information, so that she gets a better picture of where I’m coming from, which in a sense made her no longer exactly on the same level of ground, you know. Like seeing a plant that many people think is poisoness, but then going into deep research to study IT so that the belief of it being poisness is not just an unsupported conclusion.

      Ok, I started writing this message like at about 7am, but because I was busy helping my father work on some stuff, I’m just finishing. I think Cycads posted something new since I started writing this. Sorry for the super long posts. Again, just trying to get everything. X6

      • You have just proven it again: You have a criteria sheet and that sheet includes “Preferably foreign”. You want a certain woman and it will delight you more if she’s foreign. All of your justifications mean nothing. The whole point is you have a criteria sheet and you have just admitted that you are ‘shopping’ for one nice and physically attractive girl. In your mental criteria sheet, you have sections such as ‘Spiritual trait’ and ‘Physical attraction trait’ and under each section you have a whole list of traits to tick. You can defend yourself for all you like and say that I have ‘no prove’, all you ever do is reinforcing the idea that you have one and each of your justifications tells us why you have that trait listed in the list. Readers don’t just read words, they read between the lines.

        I also never said that you are lying about sex after marriage thing; I’m saying that you still have a criteria sheet regardless of whether your intention is to sleep with her after marriage or not. Criteria sheet and sex after marriage are two different things. I as a reader have already noticed that you have a criteria sheet and your reasoning proves that you really do have a criteria sheet.

        I have male friends who want to look for a good woman. I asked them “What do you mean by good woman?”. They said it’s any woman who can click with them and whom they think is attractive in their eyes. Sounds like you so far? But wait, there’s more.
        I jokingly asked them if they prefer woman of their own race or other race. Their responses were along the lines of “It doesn’t matter where she is from, I don’t care what race she is. I don’t have a preference in this. In fact, you can’t even call this a preference. Race and culture should never be a preference in the first place”.

      • Ok, criteria sheet? Well essentially yeah. Hey, but man, X( I don’t prefer race and culture in disrespect. Yeah, if you asked me that in person, I would have told you”I want to try and get a girl that is different from my own ethnicity, but that doesn’t mean I’ll exclude my own just to get that. ” if you weren’t a guy who would find it funny or strange if all he wants is just a girl of his own ethnicity and that’s the most common thing for him, or if you were a girl who wouldn’t just insult me or disrespectfully joke about it with others, AND if you were a girl who was a good friend of mine. That’s what I would have said. I try to avoid speaking much on that topic with my brothers and sisters, even though they have enough reason to believe I’d like a girl different from my own ethnicity/nationality. Again, yeah, it’s not out of disrespect. /p’.’q\ (sad face with tears)

      • It’s not a matter of “prefer race and culture in disrespect”. It’s the fact that you have a preference and “want to try and get a girl that is different from my own ethnicity”. So what if you won’t “exclude my own just to get that”? The fact that you have a preference like that is already questionable. That is what it all boils down to.

      • Questionable? /p’.’q\ I thought I answered those questions. /u’.’u\ I guess the only thing left in question is whether or not all of what I say is sincerely true and not of ill intent, and the only way to know is when I get the girl.

  33. In the end, a good relationship is based on liking the other person for who they are, and not what they are. The reason why the discussion with Averill keeps going round in circles (‘I thought I answered those questions’), is partly due to the subtlety of the difference between ‘who’ and ‘what’. He tells us what he wants in a partner, and the women here tell him they don’t like it when men ‘date with a shopping list’: it’s about people rather than things. It is reasonable to talk about the qualities you would like in a partner, but ‘Asian’ is not a quality, it’s geography. Now, we stand on the brink of Asian fetishism because it creates a stereotype of the ‘Asian Girl’ and commends her qualities. Whereas it would be reasonable to appreciate some (but not all) of those perceived qualities, it is fetishism when they tick your boxes and you say ‘I’ll have an Asian please’. How would you like it if you had a non-white girlfriend who told you that she was only interested in you because she always liked white men in films and isn’t interested in you as you, but as a kind of trophy?

    • I said already that it’s not JUST because she is foreign. Her ethnicity, is just ONE physical appeal to me, BUT IS NOT A NECESSITY. Again, I don’t exclude girls of my own ethnicity for that reason. I look for a certain KIND of girl (pertaining to her character and spirit). So again, I have a physical attraction to any girl that is pretty to me, and I have a spiritual attraction to any girl that is of a good heart, mind and spirit. And again, the trophy thing X(. I said “Glorious thing created by God and given to me from Him” and said that the same is for men to women as well.” in Jha’s other post as what I meant. And again, not because she is foreign. And I’m not white, but if there is a character in a film with my mind and character who is of my ethnicity, then yeah, good, as long as I’m not like the bad guy in the film. If there is a very sweet and nice girl portrayed in a film, and I happen to find a girl like that, then yeah, no harm again. I DO NOT find interest in a girl just because of her ethnicity X(. Her physical appeal to me is first, then her character is next.

  34. Or just plan someone not your colour, to start with.

    The first guy who tried to pick me up because I was Asian, and his ex was Asian, and that was a good relationship before she moved away, so he’d like to date another Asian, was a black guy. I’m sure he was a nice guy, but when we talked about our interests in what was definitely stilted conversation and had nothing in common, it was a skeevy moment.

    It’s really not limited to white dudes.

  35. Interesting though, I’ve found that I’m more open to speaking to someone in a different language as a result of one of my language study methods I used when taking French in high school, which is to use what you know how to say whenever you speak with your friends, classmates, close associates, etc. even if you know they don’t understand. [laugh]….Actually, how I met my first love, but hadn’t known it until 2 years later [laugh]…. She was a Spanish girl. I didn’t have interest in foreign girls then. I’ve noticed that I’m more easily open to speak to someone who’s native tongue is English, in a different language then I am to speak English. [laugh]….An interesting product of my previous life experience in elementary school. Though I still communicate well in English with others, I’ve also made it tricky since I’ve spent so much time doing the observation I promised myself, of people so that I can better communicate with them, and keeping my silence in the process until I’m sure it’s good to speak. I’ve in a sense lost my openness to use my English tongue, and use a foreign language to open up more. [laugh]…So I told some friends recently whenever they ask me about my status, “I still haven’t found the girl I’m looking for. You know, no. I haven’t revealed myself to her.” My love for learning and studying French lead to my love for learning language. I wondered later on why my life end up letting me meet so many people from all over the world from foreign countries online, and also considered my status as a single male. [laugh]…There was some kind of purpose for my life to be directed by my interesting language. Not only does it help me be more opened to people and develop better language studying skills/methods to share with other language learners, but it allows me to connect better with other people journey that leaves so much room for experience. Which I guess is why I’d love to share the earlier mentioned experience with a foreign wife. At the same time though, I still have to know the language well enough to converse if want to connect with a foreign girl. So I’m studying. Ultimately, my goal for developing language study methods is to teach it in a foreign country, actually. A contribution to the learners. I won’t post anymore, and yeah, all of this message is about me, but maybe it may give another perspective on the matter. If you want me to respond to any messages, you can email me. abetwabe….at……gmail………….com. Have fun everyone. [smile]…..

  36. The allure of the foreign or “exotic”as outline in the chromosomes and you want to call it Racism?

    when a man (or a women) is attracted to something different, seeks it out, this is looking for something to be created between two consenting adults. Consenting meaning it would be mutual.

    So repelled by something different, it is racism.
    Attracted to, it is racism.

    yes its the same simple biology at work isn’t it? And your solution is…?

    In addiction medicine, addiction is defined by consequences. I’d like to know the harsh consequences of this racism….because i’m sure every lynched slave from American history is “rolling in their grave” at your posted disgust.

  37. Pingback: Foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds « Between the Lines

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